[NTLUG:Discuss] Install Gripes

[Leroy Tennison]

Stephen Davidson wrote:
> Hey Madhat.
> 
> Responses inlined;
> 
> MadHat Unspecific wrote:
> |
> |
> | Thanks for signing your message, hate to think it was spoofed from
> | someone else.
> |
> | This does not "constructively sum up" anything.  You sent a link to
> | someone saying Windows is consistent and Linux is not.  This is BULL
> | SHIT, plain and simple.  Anyone who believes this does not work on both
> | systems on a regular basis.  Windows has a method of updating the system
> | automagically.  This only covers the portions of the  OS and helper apps
> | that are distributed with the OS.  Most major linux distributions do the
> | same.  In the windows world there are some common installers, but not
> | every 3rd party app uses them.   Not all apps install in the same place.
> |   Not all apps are able to be easily uninstaled.  Not all apps
> | automagically update themselves.
> |
> | Now looking at Linux.  If we look at a few major distros, like RedHat,
> | Fedora, CentOS, Suse, Ubuntu, etc...  all of these have methods of
> | installing via a simple GUI that installs the latest apps available for
> | that version of the OS. They are all installed the same way (on each
> | distro respectively) and maintained by the developers of the OS in
> | centralized repositories.   They are uninstalled in all the same way
> | (using the distro's package manager most of the time).  Now, we can look
> | outside of the distro's repositories, we run into the same problem as we
> | have with windows, inconsistent installers or packaging methods,
> | uninstall routines, etc...  Hey Guess what, they are all in the same
> | boat.  Windows, Linux distros, Mac, BSD distros....
> 
> Unfortunately, the blurb that was sent sums up my current experiences
> with installing software on Linux.  For my laptop, I use SuSE, which
> does a half decent job of handling these issues, most of the time.
> 
> But I routinely run into issues were, for various reasons, the installs
> fail (if I can even get them to start).  My latest sets were on Fedora
> Core 8 & 9, btw.  On Fedora Core 9, it was the Alternatives system(?),
> which was symlinking to OS installed versions of software, NOT the
> versino I had just installed via RPM.  (And yes, it WAS an RPM for
> Redhat Linux -- don't remember what version, was a couple of weeks ago).
> ~ For Fedora 8, well, I sill have not solved THAT problem.  (Packages
> such as Firefox installed, but I can not get them to come up via an SSH
> link -- but I can when logging in via SSH to other machines).
> 
> So, the next thing, is "RTFM" -- which in one case did, but was not
> enough.  In the Fedora case, I have not even been able to figure out
> what question to ask about what its issue is -- and Google has not yet
> turned up anything relevant or useful.  So, burning money and time on an
> issue that is supposed to be a 'simple install'.  And this issue, I
> don't even know if 'reading the source', a frequent answer (although not
> normally from here -- thanks!) would be adequate, if I could even figure
> out what source to read.
> 
> I will grant that most programs do not uninstall from MS properly, but
> they DO install there properly far more frequently and easily than
> anything comparable in Linux right now.
> 
> And that's been kind of the whole point of that article and this thread.
> ~ End users like me --- we need usability and sane defaults.  SuSE and
> Ubuntu are two that have making good strides in the right direction --
> although both still have a ways to go.
> 
> -Steve
> 

You may have hit on a significant source of the problem without
realizing it: Fedora.  I'm not saying this because I'm some variant of
non-Red-Hat bigot (I'm actually more comfortable with Red Hat than SuSE,
Debian, etc.).  I'm saying it because Fedora (like some other
distributions out there) is by design "cutting edge".  It's where the
newest software versions and totally new software (which, almost by
definition, is not "well baked" yet) get their bugs worked out.

A better comparison would be to look at Windows and commercial Linux
offerings.  You will find that the commercial offerings lag behind in
software versions and there's a reason for this - the goal is stability
more than functionality.

I would also agree with some of the previous comments, you may have had
great success with Windows installs because you haven't gotten far
enough away from the mainstream.  Try installing some vertical market
applications, things can get a lot more "interesting" fast.  Even if
they install successfully, they have more of a user "in your face" than
an "interface".
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