[NTLUG:Discuss] Re: OT (waaay OT): BitTorrent and TV shows

[Fred Hensley]

At times like these I dearly wish my grandmother were still alive.

She had an amazingly effective way to keep her arguing grandkids (including
myself) in line, even when absolutely sure I was in the right.

Her procedure was fairly simple - rapidly seizing me (and my adversary) by
our earlobes and squeezing until we both apologized to each other and
vehemently promised to disagree nicely.  

It was the most productive means to draw out genuine humility in a very
short amount of time.  Whether or not I was winning my personal battle, she
knew long before, by our demeanor, that we were both losing.

Wish you were here grandma...  

Madhat - Sorry for the non-linux related post.  I'll do better next time
with a Debian-related question.

Best to all,

-Fred-

**James 1:19**

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces at ntlug.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at ntlug.org] On Behalf
Of Bryan J. Smith
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 1:07 PM
To: NTLUG Discussion List
Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] Re: OT (waaay OT): BitTorrent and TV shows

On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 12:22, Greg Edwards wrote:
> Let's see:
> Power plants
> Hoover Dam

Yes, these are consumer electronics?
No, these are public infrastructure.
Totally different.

> ICs

Do you have examples?

> Computers

Yes, some were developed for the census first.  But it was still private
industry, and the _sales_ came from practical applications in other
areas.

> Public Switched Network

Not consumer electronics.
Again, public infrastructure.

> Internet
> Satellites
> GPS

What didn't you understand about my _exact_ statement?
  "At the most they have incubated select technologies for
   national security."

Internet, Satellites and GPS had their _educational_/_military_
purposes.  It was _private_industry_ that found a use for them.
And you're still talking public _infrastructure_, not the end-consumer
devices themselves.

One could argue that many of the 100,000+ parts of the space shuttle
have created a pethora new technologies.  Don't confuse "infrastructure"
or "materials" with _practical_, end-user products.

Plus, you're taking the whole discussion out of context.  In the
original thread, someone claimed that broadcast TV stations receive a
significiant portion of their funding from the government, not
advertising.

> A government employee may not have "invented" the things, but without your

> tax dollars being used to fund R&D, we'd be living in the stone age.

  "At the most they have incubated select technologies for
   national security."

That's _exactly_ what the R&D does!

But it's typically infrastructure or materials, _not_ direct, end-user
electronics.  That was my point.

> A major percentage of the consumer products you use today came from some 
> sort of government project,

I don't disagree.

> either directly (aka NASA), or through research (aka ARPANET).

Again, don't confuse "infrastructure" or "materials" with actual
products.  Would GPS be as usable without the infrastructure?  No. 
Would private industry build such an infrastructure?  Yes, but it would
be in the future.

The government _only_ incubates "infrastructure" or "technologies" like
"materials," it does not, and can not directly influence the creation of
direct, end-consumer electronic products.  In fact, talk to anyone with
DARPA, NASA, NIST and many other federal agencies and they will tell you
_exactly_ that.

It's a very _strict_ separation.  The government can help innovation --
especially "big budget" R&D.  But they do _not_ get involved with the
end-consumer product R&D.  The second they do, we are now a socialist
economic model, instead of the balance of capitalism and facist** we are
now.

**NOTE:  "facist" is _not_ a "bad word" from the standpoint of "economic
model."  It means government controlled/influenced private industry.

> In reality the largest supplier of venture capital in the US is the
> Federal Government, they just don't require an ROI of 30%.

But it's typically on in the areas of _pure_ R&D or "infrastructure."
Yes, the government has its own, end-use products developed.  But they
are typically _far_removed_ from consumer usage.

In fact, back to the original context, the US media is the institution
the government is _most_ "hands off" of.  It goes to the _heart_ of what
makes the US different than almost any other nation!

That was my point, especially in that context.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                                    b.j.smith at ieee.org 
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Subtotal Cost of Ownership (SCO) for Windows being less than Linux
Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) assumes experts for the former, costly
retraining for the latter, omitted "software assurance" costs in 
compatible desktop OS/apps for the former, no free/legacy reuse for
latter, and no basic security, patch or downtime comparison at all.



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