[NTLUG:Discuss] CPU History

[Steve Baker]

David wrote:

> I admit up front I have a rather absolutist, puritan attitude about
> this point.  If I can't do "X" in the GPL/Free Software world, then I'm
> just not interested in doing "X" at all.

OK - but let me pose my situation to you:

   Suppose your job entails doing high speed 3D graphics. That's
   the nature of the business - it can't be done without 3D graphics
   and it cannot be done competitively without state of the art 3D.

   You have some choices:

    1) Use binary drivers under Linux.
    2) Use binary drivers under Windoze
    3) Get another job...but outside 3D graphics...and
       therefore outside your area of expertise...and therefore
       at much lower pay...maybe half as much pay...maybe be
       unemployed.

Since you utterly won't accept (1), hopefully you don't
accept (2) - so that only leaves (3).  So you give up your
career (because you are an absolutist) and try to retrain
in some other area.  You family don't understand why you
chucked in your perfectly good job over something so obscure
but what the heck - this is a matter of PRINCIPLE dammit.

   What does the company you work for do?

    1) Continue to use binary drivers under Linux
    2) Switch to Windoze - and STILL use binary drivers

...well, if they continue to do (1) despite you resigning in
protest, what was the point of throwing away your perfectly
good job?   If they decide that they might as well do (2) then
you not only lost your job - but you converted several thousand
Linux computers to using Windoze - way to go Mr Absolutist!

So, the answer is that you grumble about the lack of chip
specifications - and you use the binary drivers under Linux.

In practice, getting enough (non-absolutist) Linux enthusiasts
into a company and getting them (against stiff opposition) to
switch their entire product line from Windoze to Linux is a MAJOR
win for the Linux community.  Putting up with a *tiny* percentage
of non-OpenSource (but still free-as-in-beer) code is a small
price to pay.

I've trained my employer into understanding that OpenSource is
good - that Linux is good - that it is competitive and can do
the job.  What am I supposed to do now - tell them that Linux
is so good that they have to go out of business in order to
support it?  That's insanity.  Pretty much all of our competitors
are using Windoze - if I stop pressing for Linux, the company
I work for will probably take the easy way and follow the rest
of the industry.  How does that help the Linux cause?

So, suck it up and go with the flow.

>>I'm not sure I buy *that* argument - but I do truly believe they
>>have good business reasons for not releasing their specs...otherwise
>>they'd have done so already.  They aren't withholding this stuff out
>>of malice - or because Microsoft are strong-arming them into not releasing
>>them...if that were the case then they wouldn't be releasing binary
>>drivers for Linux either.
>>
> 
> Never attribute to malice - nVidia's or Microsoft's - that which is
> adequately explained by ignorance.  

nVidia are *CERTAINLY* not ignorant of Linux and OpenSource principles.

Look at their flagship shader language 'Cg' - guess what - it's hosted
on SourceForge - it's OpenSourced.

They clearly OpenSource things when they feel they can.  This simply
cannot be a matter of ignorance.  (I'm on first name terms with a
lot of their engineers - I *KNOW* it's not ignorance).

>>It would be nice to have that choice - but realistically, that's not
>>much of a choice...and for the NEXT generation of hardware with
>>'Shader' technology - you are doomed.  Not one 3D graphics company
>>has offered to release the specs of hardware released later than
>>January 2002
> 
> But you miss the point.  You DO have the choice, and you make it,
> every time you choose to open your wallet.  If one 3D vendor won't
> release specs, buy a different vendor's card.  If all the 3D vendors
> refuse, then you similarly may refuse to buy any of their cards.
> They'll notice, sooner or later.

I *NEED* a high performance 3D card in order to do my job.  A two-generations
old Matrox heap of crap with drivers that don't support procedural
shader languages, antialiasing, multiple-textures-without-multiple-passes
and a dozen other 'modern' graphics features simply won't cut it.   There
is a job to be done - and if Linux can't do it, my company WILL switch
to Windoze.

This isn't a choice between using the latest 10% faster Ethernet
card - or the older slower one....this is the difference between
a 50MHz 486 and a 3GHz Pentium...that's the magnitude of performance
difference between the best that cards with OpenSource drivers can offer
and the leading edge nVidia drivers with pre-release GeForceFX hardware.

This argument that you can simply not buy a card unless it has
an OpenSourced driver is all very well - and it would work just
fine if even one of the leading edge manufacturers would release
their specs - but so long as NONE of them do - you are screwed.

It's binary drivers - or back to Windoze...there is no other way.

>>  * Boycotting *all* 3D graphics cards isn't an option...not if
>>    you actually want reasonably modern games - or other 3D apps.
>>
> 
> Why isn't that an option?  OK, maybe you do without 3D.

We make flight simulators!   If you have a way to make a
flight simulator without cutting edge 3D, I'd like to hear it.

> Tough.  World
> Domination may have certain sacrifices attached.

But having a 1000-employee company abandon Linux for Windoze
isn't helping Linux towards World Domination - it's a major
setback.

 > I have a large
> collection of combat flight simulators,

**GAMES**

Not actual 50 million dollar flight simulators!

> and top-of-the-line joysticks
> and throttle systems, which I never use anymore.  They require
> Windows, and I won't permit MS-ware on my systems.  When the gaming
> companies come out with a Linux combat flight simulator, I'll open my
> wallet.

The pilots out there need to be trained.  They can't say
"Oh dear - no binary drivers - we'll just put off learning to
fly this plane for another couple of years".

We live in the real world.   There are some things where
you just can't say "If I can't do it my way - I won't do it at all."
that's totally unrealistic.

>>  * There is no way to pressure the vendors into releasing
>>    the specs.
> 
> There is one and only one way.  Corporations pay lip service to
> everything, absolutely everything, except their pursuit of your money.
> The only power we hold, and will ever hold, over a corporation is the
> power to spend or withhold our money.

Exactly - but if the percieved cost of releasing chip specs is larger
than the entire Linux/BSD/whatever market (which nVidia claim it is),
then you're screwed.

Until Linux has (say) a 30% share of the desktop market - with LOTS of
cutting edge 3D games being released for it every month, we have zero
market pull with these people...none, zip, nada.

The PRACTICAL approach is to suck it up - do whatever is necessary
to get Linux up there in the multiple-tens-of-percent-of-the-desktop-market
(and more specifically - the GAMES PLAYERS MARKET)...and THEN pressure
nVidia, ATI, Matrox et al to "Do The Right Thing" - when there is enough
of a Linux market that they won't be able to withdraw from it and stay
in business.  THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL A BOYCOTT WORK.

Giving up on playing fancy 3D games on your Linux PC *reduces* the number
of 3D gamers who'll use Linux - and that will DELAY the day when Linux
takes off in this area - which wil LENGTHEN the time until you get your
precious chip specs.

Your attitude is counter-productive.

First get Linux "out there" - then shoot for gold.

> That logic applied equally well, at one point, to copy-protected PC
> software.  "Everybody does it, and we wish there was an alternative,
> but it's here to stay."  Except of course, it wasn't.  People refused
> to buy programs with copy protection, and it went away.  Except for
> games, where consumers were content to spend their money anyway.
> Businesses, which got fed up with copy protection on Lotus 1-2-3,
> stopped buying.  When was the last time you saw a copy-protected
> spreadsheet program?
> 
> Stop wishing and do something about it.  Quit buying cards from
> nVidia, or from every vendor, who won't tell you how to use the
> product that you just paid for.  

That's just not possible for me and a large segment of the 3D graphics
market.

> Remember, choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

So what do I do?  Pick the greater of two evils?  Use Windoze?
Is that better?

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
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