[NTLUG:Discuss] Linux for the State of Texas?

[kbrannen@gte.net]

I'll attempt an answer to both...

Vaidya, Harshal (Cognizant) wrote:
> Hi,
>   Even i am frustated about the lack of Cut Copy Pasting in Linux.I was
> thinking of starting off a project which would enable this CCP functionality
> exactly the same way it is in Windows.
> 
>   Any voulenteers.I am serious about this!!

I'm not trying to wiggle out of answering, but your complaint is fairly vague 
since you don't name the apps you're having trouble with, so concrete advice 
is hard to find.  However, there is still some help available. :-)  My answer 
assumes you're running X and not the console (which has gpm, but I personally 
avoid that program like the plague. :-)

X Window has something called Cut Buffers, which is something like mswindows's 
clipboard.  X has a default cut buffer, #0 (as programmers generally start 
counting at 0).  In an xterm app, highlight something with button 1; that goes 
into cut buffer 0.  Highlight something else, cut buffer 0 is overwritten.  In 
the xterm, click button 2 to paste the text (yes, X assumes you have a 3 
button mouse, if you don't then click both buttons at the same time which will 
emulate button 2 if X is set up correctly for your system).  You can copy -n- 
paste from most apps running under X this way, at least most of the time. :-/ 
  More on the full solution in a minute.

However, some apps don't play nicely, they don't use the X cut buffers 
directly.  Alas, Star Office is one of them; but it can be forced.  My 
favorite calendar program (ical) is another.  And so on.  Why?  The best I can 
explain it is via an old (but true) joke:  The great thing about standards is 
there's so many of them to chose from. :-)

So what's one to do?  May I suggest running a program called "xcb", for "X Cut 
Buffers".  You can create as many buffers as you want (be reasonable, :-) I 
have 10, default is 8.  Then when something is highlighted, it will show up in 
xcb.  You can click on any cell to put the contents in the "default" buffer, 
which you can then paste almost anywhere.  This is also how you can get around 
all the apps that don't play nicely; i.e. highlight what you want, paste it 
into an xcb cell, then highlight that cell, and paste into somewhere else. 
Some programs like Star Office, will require you to do Edit->Copy before you 
can paste into xcb (and vica-versa for pasting into Star Office), but you can 
make it work.  Alas, some programs will still require extra work (ical makes 
you do control-Y to paste, even though copying works "normally"); either learn 
or avoid them (ical has been abandoned by its developer so it won't probably 
won't be fixed, but I think its the best calendar program for the way I work). 
  I can give you other xcb tips if you want; but read the man page first to 
see what else you can do with it, as that's where I got all my info.

Please note, one area mswindows beats Linux is that mswindows can c-n-p 
non-text objects like graphics.  Perhaps one day we'll catch up there.

Where does one learn this kind of stuff?  That's a good question, and a place 
Linux can get better on.  I learned it because I used to do X programming, as 
well as LOTS of reading. :-)

Lastly, you'll never be able to implement mswindows style of ^c, ^v, ^x to 
copy, past, cut--as that would require changing all the apps (that don't 
already do that, some like Mozilla already use those keys for those 
functions).  Also, some apps already use those "keys" for other things, and 
they will/can not be changed (e.g. vi uses ^v, and emacs uses ^c, both of 
which were around before Linux.)

More below...

> 
> -- Harshal.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: falconjetflyer at netscape.net [mailto:falconjetflyer at netscape.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:52 AM
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: RE: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] Linux for the State of Texas?
> 
> 
> Ok, I concider myself more computer savy than the average bear.
> BUT,  My 9 months of experience with Linux has left me frustrated.
> There are no standards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They're coming.  The Linux Standards Base committee just released v1.1, IIRC. 
  Version 1.0 helped the major distros to get closer; v1.1 will help more. 
There are other standards out there as well.  This is one place where not 
having a single company be responsible for it all hurts us...sigh...

> I can't paste between app's

Again vague, but see above.

> Upgrades are a joke.   No that's not true, they are impossible except for
> you programmers and software engineers.   
> How do you expect the average government worker (not the sharpest pencil in
> the pocket) to deal with all this. 

I don't expect it, and they shouldn't try it.  Ignoring Linux on the home 
machine, which would be impossible for many (I'm sad to say), the government 
worker is in an office, i.e. like a business.  It should have an IT 
department.  Linux is one of those wonderful operating systems that can be 
remotely administered.  I could write a short script that would take a list of 
machines, and automatically update them (after I had tested the updates first 
of course. :-)  So IMHO, this is a non-problem; you just weren't yet aware of 
this possibility--now you are. :-)

Also, I think all the major distros how have online updates to make life 
easier.  These programs work pretty well 99% of the time, but that last 1% can 
be a real bear!!!  This will get better with time, though I wished I didn't 
have to wait. :-)

> I LOVE LINUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> But you gurus need to make it a lot easier and reliable before our ethnicly
> disabled government workers can use it.
> And thems the fax jack
> Garion

Personal opinion, Linux is ready for any server room today.  Linux is ready 
only for some desktops today, and then only for the more technically competant 
(not Linux savvy, just technically competant).  But if I can join in the group 
whine, what's holding Linux back the most is missing apps.  One day...

I use Linux 98% of the time at work.  I run msWin2K only when I have to (for 
ms-project), and even then, I never leave Linux as I run Win2K inside VMWare; 
so I can have the best of both worlds. :-)

FYI, I am a developer with system admin experience, therefore, I'm not like 
the "average office worker", but I do subject my wife to Linux from time to 
time to see how close it's ready for the average desktop.  With the newer KDE 
releases, I find that it's getting very close.  Microsoft is right to be wary 
of Linux.

HTH,
Kevin