[NTLUG:Discuss] Job Searching

[Allen Flick]

Your points are well taken, but each can be looked upon from the
"dark side" that so many of us are on right now.........see below.

Steve Baker wrote:

> Daniel Hauck wrote:
> Well, let's be careful with the Xenophobia here.
> I'm one of those foreigners who came here on an H1-B.  I agree that there are
> cases where companies abuse the H1-B system to bring in cheap labour - people
> who are "in green-card jail" can't easily change jobs and stand no chance of
> ever getting a pay rise.
>
> HOWEVER - to apply a blanket ban is sheer stupidity.  Look at my personal
> circumstances:
>
>   1) I was *INVITED* to come to the US and work - I didn't ask.  The work I
>      do is flight simulation - primarily for the US armed forces.  Every F117
>      pilot and practically every F18 pilot fighting out in Afghanistan right
>      now learned to do critical parts of his job on simulators that I helped
>      to design.  Ditto for F16 pilots if they get involved.

Why were "you" invited? Was the opening made especially for you so the
chance of some citizen fitting the opening would be extremely slim?  Do you
program in some obscure language or platform that makes you so unique?


>   2) Because my expertise makes the company I work for more effective, we
>      out-sell British, French and Canadian simulator companies.  That means
>      *MORE* jobs for US techies - not less.  I'm working using an operating
>      system whose kernel was originally written by another H1-B who was
>      invited to come to work in the US....remember him?

How does this justify the *fact* that only you can do this job?


>   3) Whilst there is no shortage of technical people here, there *IS* a
>      vast shortage in some fields.  Mine is one of those.  The company I
>      work for has been trying to recruit more people with my skills for at
>      least the past 5 years - with exactly zero success.

Maybe they should make those skillls known to the real world so others
can grasp the uniqueness of these needed skills, go gain them, then fill
the need.


>   4) It's not *always* that H1-B's are cheaper and depress local salaries
>      - I earn well over $100k not counting the 20 hours paid overtime I
>      do most weeks. That's a LOT for a programmer..specialised knowledge
>      or not.  I'm not here as "cheap labour".
>
>   5) In order to turn my H1-B into a work permit, they had to *PROVE* to
>      the INS that nobody in the US is both willing and able to do the job
>      at the current market salary.  They had to advertise the job - record every
>      letter, resume, phone call, etc from applicants for *my* job - and
>      individually explain to the INS why each candidate was rejected.
>      If they had found someone, I'd have been on the next plane back home.

As stated above, when an opening is made especially for 1 person, it's so
very difficult to find someone else that fits the specification in all details.
And, all it takes is *1* detail to not be met to disqualify someone for the
job.

I was called for a job through TWC earlier this past summer. The man on
the phone point blank told me that I was one of 6 interviews that he had
to have with US citizens before he could legally hire the H1B person he
needed for the job opening.  I only wish I had been recording the call.


>     8) Shipping all the H1-B workers out of the US won't necessarily result
>      in their jobs going to Americans.  We have the Internet - people can
>      do software engineering anywhere - if companies need these people,
>      they can simply give them a T1 line in an office in their own country
>      and have them work there - no H1-B needed - and *STILL* less work for
>      US Citizens.  In fact, since the cost of living is much less in most
>      other countries, they could be paid even less than those same people
>      would be paid in the US - undercutting US salaries still further...
>      and they wouldn't be paying US taxes.

This can't be disputed too much, except for the prevailing attitude that the
employee, you, me, whoever, can't be trusted to work at home, or some
place not under management control. There has been talk of telecommuting
for years, but little has come of it because of this rampant attitude by
management......."employees can't be trusted outside our sight!"

If economically on their side, then they might consider doing a modification
of your idea wherein you develop in your home country at a reduced salary,
then a US citizen with a little less expertise would be hired to fully test your
applications before they are sent to customers.  Generally, this would be the
only acceptable way for our paranoid managers to accept your work from
elsewhere.  Of course, there could easily be a small percentage (you?) that
the work is well known and thus acceptable without the stateside inspection.


> > I have many friends who are actually H1-B visa people... I'd be sorry to see
> > them go, but damnit, I'm a CITIZEN and I need a job.  Am I a citizen or a
> > consumer?
>
> You are a human being - same as me.
>
> If there is one thing the people of this country should learn from Sept 11th,
> it is that - like it or not - you are part of a larger world.

Yes, we are all part of a larger world. So what? I'm a person. I'm a Texan.
I'm an American. I'm a member of the World Community. There's an order
for everything.

If I were a foreign worker in your home country under similar circumstances,
would your attitude, or that of your fellow citizens be the same as you are
writing here?  Doubtful.  As most other countries have protective laws, why
is it wrong for the US to do the same?

Sorry world, our constitution does NOT cover everyone born into this
world.  Just those that are US citizens.  Many of us are born this way and
we are *damned* lucky to have that condition. Others must move here
and go through some arbitrary (sic?) process.  I apologize for that, but
no one can guarantee that there won't be bumps in the road of life.

I'll agree that some of our processes need continual modifications for
streamlining purposes, as well as for other reasons. But, again, no
guarantees.


> Mass deportation of your allies law-abiding citizens isn't going to do
> much for keeping the fragile alliance together.  You should have heard the
> upset in the UK when five British widows who lost their husbands in the
> World Trade Center disaster were notified that they were to be deported
> within two weeks.  Without an H1-B worker in the family, they no longer
> had valid visa's.

I'm with you 100% on this one. If these stories are true*,

*I assume they are for arguments sake, but I've not heard these stories
on our pathetic US news folks. They may have put it out somewhere, but
just not emphasized it.


> Free trade in goods and *skilled* workers makes for better understanding
> between nations - and that's something we all could use more of right now.

"Free trade in goods and *skilled* workers" from select countries I assume
you mean, with your homeland being one of them.

If it were not just from selected countries, then we'd be right back to where
we are now with these *terrorists* coming in under some ruse of education
or employment, disappearing from sight for years only to reappear right before
their hijacked airplanes crash into some other large structure.

-----------------------------------

Consider this analogy: Your/my home is like a country within the Dallas community.
I don't have an *open door* policy wherein anyone who wants to can come and
go within my house and do whatever he/she wishes.  I may offer someone sancuary
but I'll guarantee you this, unless my own child has done something stupid, he/she
will most definitely get precedence over you. If there's just enough beds for my
family, then I'm sorry, but you'll have to sleep on the floor.

Am I mistreating you? Hell No!  I'm taking care of my own.

Should you become one of my own, by marriage or adoption or whatever, then
there will be more equal treatment.

Would I ever misplace one of my own to give it to you?  Let's say you offered
to do more work around the house, keep your room clean all the time, and always
talk good of me while you're at school.  Should I take you in and cast out my own
son?  Sorry, I don't think so.  I gotta take care of my own first.  Then, if there's

enough left over, I'll give you some.

IMHO, please no flames.

--
  :^)  Allen Flick  (ALF)
<http://msbc.simplenet.com/quotes/>
Microsoft has done for software what McDonald's did for the hamburger.
======================================================================
When you're swimming in the creek, and an eel bites your cheek,
           ......................that's a moray!