[NTLUG:Discuss] RE: Discuss digest, Vol 1 #245 - 14 msgs

[Nelson Reid]

Anyone using Earthlink DSL service?  I am having a hard time configuring my
service.

----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-admin at ntlug.org [mailto:discuss-admin at ntlug.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:49 PM
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Discuss digest, Vol 1 #245 - 14 msgs
>
>
>
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Kevin Brannen)
>   2. Re: LILO  help (Alton Pouncey)
>   3. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Steve Baker)
>   4. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Steve Baker)
>   5. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Steve Baker)
>   6. Re: device driver info (Steve Baker)
>   7. Re: LILO  help (Randal Brown)
>   8. ERROR CHECK PLEASE (Rachman M.H)
>   9. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Christopher Browne)
>   10. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Jonathan Miller)
>   11. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Kendall Clark)
>   12. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Kendall Clark)
>   13. forwarded message from randy (Kendall Clark)
>   14. Re: NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies? (Rick Cook)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:53:24 -0600
> From: Kevin Brannen <kbrannen at gte.net>
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> Bobby Wrenn wrote:
> >
> > Good point. Maybe we could get a few of you more seasoned types to
> > gather with us less informed during the LIP time at the
> monthly meeting.
> > I would also be glad to host a newbie night (Pizza
> included) in order to
> > get a guru to my house.
> >
> > I know there are a lot of people out there who want to help. We just
> > have to find the best forum anf format for
> teaching/learning to happen.
>
> Just to point out the obvious in case it's not, you'll also need to
> match problems (topics) to the teacher.  For example, while I might be
> willing to demonstrate/teach/pontificate/be-quizzed/etc on development
> or X11, I'd still consider myself a newbie in the networking
> area (thank
> goodness for the HOWTOs. :-)
>
> Kevin
>
> > MadHat wrote:
> > snip------------->
> > > pages.  I think we do a pretty good job when we can.  But
> there is only
> > > so much we can do as a group over email.  It isn't always easy to
> > > express abstract ideas via written text, without direct
> interaction.
> > >  --
> > snip------------>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:16:12 -0600
> From: Alton Pouncey <arpounce at earthlink.net>
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] LILO  help
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> When you installed OL 2.3, did you tell it to place LILO on
> the MBR (Master Boot
> Record) on the first sector of your Linux partition?  Also,
> when you boot up,
> does your machine come up with an LI prompt rather than a LILO prompt?
>
> If you installed LILO on the MBR and are getting the LI
> prompt rather than LILO
> do this:
>
> 1) boot off the floppy as you are doing now
> 2) edit /etc/lilo.conf with the word "linear" (no quotes) on
> a line by itself
> above your label information.
> 3) run /sbin/lilo
> 4) reboot
>
> This has solved my LI problem many a time.
>
> Alton Pouncey
>
> Clint Tredway wrote:
>
> > After I installed Open Linux 2.3 on a dual boot system with
> Win98, I have to
> > use a floppy to boot into Linux. Can someone help a
> beginner figure out how
> > to get LILO working? When I boot off the floppy I type in boot
> > root=/dev/hda3....
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Clint
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:07:29 -0600
> From: Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
> Reply-To: sjbaker1 at airmail.net
> Organization: Steve at Home
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> MadHat wrote:
>
> > "B. DEGRASSE" wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree with the original posting, it is difficult coming
> up to speed.  How
> > > about a newbie email list where truely dumb questions can
> be asked.
> >
> > And how would _you_ determine what a "dumb" question is?
>
> Well, that's certainly true.
>
> If we wanted a 'newbies' list (and I don't think we do) - it
> would work
> by having newbies post ALL their questions there - and the
> ones that don't
> get coherent answers could then be 'promoted' to some other list where
> dumb questions would not appear.
>
> I *hate* that solution though - it reeks of 'elitism' and that doesn't
> feel right in the world of the Internet where *finally* we have some
> measure of equality.  It also makes for S-L-O-W responses to
> hard questions
> because you'd have to post to one list, wait for a lack of
> response - then
> post again to the 'elite' list.  Nah - not gonna work.
>
> People already ask 'dumb' questions on this list, nobody seems to mind
> when that happens - and most questions do seem to get answers.  But
> the very fact that we have this thread says that it's not working...
> if it were, we'd have one question per newbie per night - the list
> would get unreadably long and everyone who might be able to help would
> probably unsubscribe.
>
> I think that a better approach is related to the suggestion I made
> last night of pairing a SMALL group of newbies together - perhaps
> with one mentor assigned to them.  These people would get to know
> each other well enough that they would KNOW that "Bob-the-mentor"
> or "Harry-the-advanced-newbie" would know the answer to that
> one - and could just pop off a quick email or even a phone call to
> that individual to ask.  Only if that half dozen people couldn't
> come up with an answer between them and their mentor would the
> question have to be asked of a larger audience.
>
> I wouldn't mind fielding a handful of real newbie questions per
> night.
>
> This is what clubs and user groups can do for you - but with HUNDREDS
> of people wanting to ask questions at meetings that last an hour
> or two once a month, it's just not personal enough to work well.
>
> NTLUG's strengths are that it can get big-time experts to talk on
> their pet subjects - but it's too unweildy to respond to the "is
> there a way to search for a file if I know it's name" type of
> question.
>
> > The ever famous phrase, There are no dumb|stupid questions, comes to
> > mind.  I don't think we can classify Linux questions to
> "dumb" and "not
> > dumb" questions.  I think it is almost as difficult to
> classify newby
> > questions from veteran questions.  I have been using Linux
> for over 5
> > years and I don't even begin to call myself an expert.  I
> know what I
> > deal with all the time, but there are simple things I never
> have to deal
> > with that a lot of "newbies" know better than I.
>
> Exactly.
>
> In a sense, we are all in permenant newbie status.
>
> There is not one person alive who has come close to 'guru' status in
> the whole of "Linux"...aside from the fact that we are not strictly
> talking about ONLY Linux problems - there are the dozen or so
> GIGABYTES of other packages to consider.
>
> I'm only too painfully aware that whilst I consider myself a guru
> in OpenGL stuff, the list of the things I know *nothing* about is
> huge and is definitely growing at an alarming rate!
>
> So, nobody should be concerned that they can't "grok" the
> whole thing...
> don't sweat it - you never will!  (And if you tried - it would change
> faster than you could possibly keep up).
>
> The important thing is to grasp the basics, get expert in matters
> you care about - and (importantly) know where to go to get advice
> when you don't.
>
> --
> Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
> sjbaker1 at airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
> sjbaker at hti.com      (work)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:22:51 -0600
> From: Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
> Reply-To: sjbaker1 at airmail.net
> Organization: Steve at Home
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0002221121370.14043-100000 at sparky.kludge.org>
> <14514.58518.577227.862761 at cmpu.net>
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> Kendall Clark wrote:
>
> > This is the damnable tension however: veterans want more
> veteran stuff
> > (but don't *need* it); newbies *need* more newbie stuff and can't
> > really function too well w/out it.
>
> And when the veterans go hard at the deep stuff, they scare
> off the newbies,
> and when the *flood* of mail that 300 nebies can generate
> hits the list,
> the veterans (who spend FAR to much time reading email as it
> is) will simple
> unsubscribe.
>
> > It's just a very hard thing to get right. Very hard as in
> 'practically
> > impossible'.
>
> Yep.
>
> >     Jonathan> OK, actually there are 2 thing that I would
> >     Jonathan> say. Secondly, us all being fans of open source
> >     Jonathan> software, I'd like to know what kind of projects the
> >     Jonathan> members are involved in, and possibly have NTLUG
> >     Jonathan> sponsored projects.
> >
> > Sure. We've done that before. NTLUG hosted The Casbah Project
> > (http://www.casbah.org) for a long time before it got its own
> > home. Chris uses NTLUG to distribute his Impress tool.
>
> But with services like SourceForge, there is little need for that
> anymore.
>
> There is no real reason these days for people to develop software
> with people who live nearby.  One of the projects I work on has
> people from Germany, Australia and Brazil working on it...and that's
> with just 8 people working it.  Why would I want to restrict myself
> to developers from North Texas?
>
> The *only* reason to have a user group that's tied to some chunk
> of real-world geography is so that people can meet face-to-face.
>
> The reason traffic on NTLUG-discuss is low is that there are ALWAYS
> better places to ask questions that aren't about when and where the
> next meeting is!  If you have an OpenGL question, you can ask it
> on either of two newsgroups - several vendor-specific lists - the
> OpenGL games developers list, etc, etc.  Why the heck would I ask
> a bunch of random Linux people just because they happen to live
> within 50 miles of me?
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
> sjbaker1 at airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
> sjbaker at hti.com      (work)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:27:31 -0600
> From: Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
> Reply-To: sjbaker1 at airmail.net
> Organization: Steve at Home
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> Kevin Brannen wrote:
>
> > > I know there are a lot of people out there who want to
> help. We just
> > > have to find the best forum anf format for
> teaching/learning to happen.
> >
> > Just to point out the obvious in case it's not, you'll also need to
> > match problems (topics) to the teacher.
>
> That's what we have databases, search engines and web sites
> for. (Damn!
> Databases and search engines are two of the things on my "know nothing
> whatever about" list!)
>
> --
> Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
> sjbaker1 at airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
> sjbaker at hti.com      (work)
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:00:05 -0600
> From: Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net>
> Reply-To: sjbaker1 at airmail.net
> Organization: Steve at Home
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] device driver info
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> dsnedigar at chamberlaingroup.com wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have any good, basic info on how to write a
> device driver under
> > Linux ?  I've got the O'Reily book but its a bit over my
> head right now since
> > I'm just starting out.   If it helps, I'm wanting to write
> a device driver for a
> > steering wheel type 'joystick' for lack of a better term.
> I want to eventually
> > write a NASCAR type game under Linux, and I thought that
> being able to read the
> > steering wheel would be a good place to start.   Any ideas ?
>
> If the steering wheel is an analog device that plugs into the regular
> joystick port then you won't need to resort to a device driver.  It'll
> just look like a regular analog joystick.
>
> If it's a digital device, then you are probably in trouble because the
> digital game port interface protocol is 'owned' by Microsoft
> - and they
> aren't revealing the necessary low-level protocols you'd need to write
> a driver (which is why there isn't a digital stick driver right
> now - AFAIK).
>
> If you are thinking about using one of the Nintendo or Playstation
> steering wheels with a hacked connector - there is information on
> how to do that and again, the standard Linux joystick driver can cope.
>
> My 'PLIB' library (http://plib.sourceforge.net) has a convenient C++
> header file that hides all the ugliness of interfacing - there is also
> a handy test program that lets you see what joystick ports wiggle as
> you play with the stick - and also which buttons do what things.
>
> Several Linux distro's already package PLIB - so it's perfectly
> possible that you already have it installed on your machine.
> Check either /usr/include/plib/js.h or /usr/local/plib/include/js.h
>
> Anyway, email me offline if you need help with that.
>
> --
> Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
> sjbaker1 at airmail.net (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
> sjbaker at hti.com      (work)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Randal Brown" <tu20159tu at netzero.net>
> To: <discuss at ntlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] LILO  help
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:19:41 -0800
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> My install went the same way.  Have you checked the OpenLinux
> 2.3 Errata?
> Your Linux partition must be located within the first 1024
> cylinders on the
> hd.  Mine is out of the 1024 cylinders and I boot with the
> floppy to start
> Linux.  Not real convenient but it does work.
>
> Randal Brown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Clint Tredway <clint at dfwwebsolutions.com>
> To: <discuss at ntlug.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 8:57 AM
> Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] LILO help
>
>
> > After I installed Open Linux 2.3 on a dual boot system with
> Win98, I have
> to
> > use a floppy to boot into Linux. Can someone help a
> beginner figure out
> how
> > to get LILO working? When I boot off the floppy I type in boot
> > root=/dev/hda3....
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Clint
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
>
> __________________________________________
> NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:53:40 +0700
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> From: "Rachman M.H" <manz at attglobal.net>
> Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] ERROR CHECK PLEASE
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> root::0:root bin::1:root,bin,daemon,mike,kclark,womer
> daemon::2:root,bin,daemon sys::3:root,bin,adm adm::4:root,adm,daemon
> tty::5: disk::6:root lp::7:daemon,lp mem::8: kmem::9: wheel::10:root
> mail::12:mail news::13:news uucp::14:uucp man::15: games::20:
> gopher::30:
> dip::40: ftp::50:womer nobody::99:
> users::100:mike,kclark,ccox,majordomo,archive,webmaster,httpd,
> http,womer,vin
> ce,bryanr,pti,rcook,cbbrowne,dave,niel,archive,kmacleod,spearc
> e,ayochum,don,
> mark,muggles,henryw,cbsrc,jgarrison,chewy,jehamby,bparsia,scgm
> ille,josh,yoz,
> jhebert,gwachob,occupant,mfcvs,wesf,cbtest,grinder,tom,rmfcons
> ,stuart,ray
> webmaster::750:mike,kclark,ccox,vince,cbbrowne,dave,niel,stuart
> majordomo::504:majordomo,ccox archive::500:archive
> gamora::101:scgmille
> rmfcons::501:rmfcons mailman::537:mailman,kclark
> board::538:kclark,stuart
> floppy:x:19:
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0002221121370.14043-100000 at sparky.kludge.org>
> <14514.58518.577227.862761 at cmpu.net>
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:33:52 -0600
> From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne at hex.net>
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> > >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Miller <betaray at kludge.org> writes:
> >
> >     Jonathan> Actually if I were forced to say anything
> negative about
> >     Jonathan> the NTLUG, it would be that there is much here for the
> >     Jonathan> "veteran". Like my current intrests are rolling my own
> >     Jonathan> distro for a few sparcs and doing pilot programming
> >     Jonathan> under Linux. These are things I wouldn'teven dream of
> >     Jonathan> talking about on this list normally.
> >
> > Did you mean to say 'not much here for the veteran?' And, btw, we do
> > regularly force people to say bad stuff about NTLUG but,
> <checking the
> > list>, you weren't scheduled for some time. :>
> >
> > This is the damnable tension however: veterans want more
> veteran stuff
> > (but don't *need* it); newbies *need* more newbie stuff and can't
> > really function too well w/out it.
> >
> > It's just a very hard thing to get right. Very hard as in
> 'practically
> > impossible'.
>
> This is exactly why I tend to bounce questions over to
> discuss at ntlug.org any
> time I can; it fulfills several purposes:
>
> a) It helps there to be some diverse questions, so that
> everyone learns
> something.
>
> b) It takes some of the responsibility away from me.  There
> could be a
> "consulting service" some place; I'm not prepared to run that
> business, and it
> is *not* nice to tell people:
>
> I'd be glad to answer your question, and accept Visa and
> American Express.
> Please warm up your "cheque-signing hand;" it'll be burning
> by the time we're
> done...
>
> c) More participants means a greater probability of having an
> unambiguously
> correct answer.
>
> >     Jonathan> OK, actually there are 2 thing that I would
> >     Jonathan> say. Secondly, us all being fans of open source
> >     Jonathan> software, I'd like to know what kind of projects the
> >     Jonathan> members are involved in, and possibly have NTLUG
> >     Jonathan> sponsored projects.
> >
> > Sure. We've done that before. NTLUG hosted The Casbah Project
> > (http://www.casbah.org) for a long time before it got its own
> > home. Chris uses NTLUG to distribute his Impress tool.
>
> ... And Chris uses NTLUG to host some web pages ...  [There
> be ambiguity when
> you say "Chris"!]
>
> Perhaps the *biggest* thing that NTLUG does to help sponsor
> possible projects
> is to simply have a common place and time where a sizable
> group of Linux
> enthusiasts can get together.  THAT is the critical resource
> for putting
> projects together.
>
> Linux didn't happen because some organization decided to
> sponsor it; it
> happened because a number of people that wanted to hack on
> 80386 code got
> together (largely on the Internet) and decided to "hack together."
>
> NTLUG offers the opportunity for people to actually meet in
> person, which is
> the opportunity that would-be "project participants" should
> be availing
> themselves of.
>
> Last Saturday, on at least three occasions one person or
> another mentioned
> some idea for starting a business of one sort or another
> relating to Linux.
> (Mostly options relating to training, consulting, systems
> integration...)  The
> assumption was that NTLUG would have some inherent interest
> in running such
> businesses.  My comment (more than once!) was: "If you want
> to start that
> business, feel free."
>
> Projects happen because someone wants it to happen badly
> enough to volunteer
> to organize the project.
>
> >     Jonathan> Are there any other individuals out there
> that although
> >     Jonathan> they help teaching the newbies, also want to
> learn more
> >     Jonathan> for themselves?
> >
> > This is supposed to be the point of the 'main' monthly technical
> > presentation.
>
> One of the ideas being "batted around" is that of having some
> more specialized
> "SIGs" that might meet concurrently with the Beginners'
> Group.  If certain
> ideas for topics for such seem to resonate, and if people
> step up to volunteer
> to organize and moderate them, this may provide something
> else in addition to
> the "main technical presentation."
>
> Did I say the word "volunteer" enough times? :-)
> --
> Where do you want to Tell Microsoft To Go Today?
> cbbrowne at ntlug.org - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:52:44 -0600 (CST)
> From: Jonathan Miller <betaray at kludge.org>
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> OK, I want to clarify something. The kind of things that I was talking
> about with NTLUG sponsored event were things like the lip,
> just for the
> uber nerds. I've recently become extremely intrested in
> getting Linux on
> just about any weird peice of hardware I can find, yet I
> don't own every
> type of hardware out there. That and I'd like to meet more of
> the advanced
> users face to face. I don't have any ambitions beyond meeting a couple
> people, having a couple laughs, and compiling binutils in strange and
> exotic ways.
>
> -- Jonathan
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> From: Kendall Clark <kclark at ntlug.org>
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 01:16:17 -0600 (CST)
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0002221121370.14043-100000 at sparky.kludge.org>
> <14514.58518.577227.862761 at cmpu.net>
> <38B3609B.EED6E6FB at airmail.net>
> Reply-To: kclark at ntlug.org
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net> writes:
>
>     Jonathan> OK, actually there are 2 thing that I would
>     Jonathan> say. Secondly, us all being fans of open source
>     Jonathan> software, I'd like to know what kind of projects the
>     Jonathan> members are involved in, and possibly have NTLUG
>     Jonathan> sponsored projects.
>     >>  Sure. We've done that before. NTLUG hosted The Casbah Project
>     >> (http://www.casbah.org) for a long time before it got its own
>     >> home. Chris uses NTLUG to distribute his Impress tool.
>
>     Steve> But with services like SourceForge, there is little need
>     Steve> for that anymore.
>
> Yeah, but this was 30 months ago! Long before Sourceforge, which is a
> very new, though well-received development. This was before *any*
> Linux IPOs, before the flood of corporate dollars.
>
>     Steve> There is no real reason these days for people to develop
>     Steve> software with people who live nearby.  One of the projects
>     Steve> I work on has people from Germany, Australia and Brazil
>     Steve> working on it...and that's with just 8 people working it.
>     Steve> Why would I want to restrict myself to developers from
>     Steve> North Texas?
>
> Who said anything about that? The group I develop with is located in
> North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, upstate New York, Belgium, So. Cal and
> Boston, etc.
>
> No one said or implied that you or anyone else should
> restrict who you
> develop with. You misinterpreted Jonathan's remarks.
>
>     Steve> The *only* reason to have a user group that's tied to some
>     Steve> chunk of real-world geography is so that people can meet
>     Steve> face-to-face.
>
>     Steve> The reason traffic on NTLUG-discuss is low is that there
>     Steve> are ALWAYS better places to ask questions that aren't about
>     Steve> when and where the next meeting is!  If you have an OpenGL
>     Steve> question, you can ask it on either of two newsgroups -
>     Steve> several vendor-specific lists - the OpenGL games developers
>     Steve> list, etc, etc.  Why the heck would I ask a bunch of random
>     Steve> Linux people just because they happen to live within 50
>     Steve> miles of me?
>
> You're tilting at windmills. Many newbies of course don't know about
> the myriad of groups and mailing lists. For many people the one thing
> they know is there are some helpful people on the discuss list. And
> one thing we tend to tell them is exactly what you just said; but
> until they know that, NTLUG is a fairly safe place for them to ask.
>
> Calm down.
>
> <Kendall/>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: Kendall Clark <kclark at ntlug.org>
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 01:19:58 -0600 (CST)
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> <38B2C8AE.E98F9F30 at unspecific.com>
> <38B35D01.4612DABB at airmail.net>
> Reply-To: kclark at ntlug.org
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Baker <sjbaker1 at airmail.net> writes:
>
>     Steve> MadHat wrote:
>     >> "B. DEGRASSE" wrote: > > I agree with the original posting, it
>     >> is difficult coming up to speed.  How > about a newbie email
>     >> list where truely dumb questions can be asked.
>     >>
>     >> And how would _you_ determine what a "dumb" question is?
>
>     Steve> Well, that's certainly true.
>
>     Steve> If we wanted a 'newbies' list (and I don't think we do) -
>     Steve> it would work by having newbies post ALL their questions
>     Steve> there - and the ones that don't get coherent answers could
>     Steve> then be 'promoted' to some other list where dumb questions
>     Steve> would not appear.
>
> We're not going to do anything like that; you should hate this
> solution as it's retarded. But no one is proposing it, so don't sweat
> it.
>
>     Steve> I *hate* that solution though - it reeks of 'elitism' and
>     Steve> that doesn't feel right in the world of the Internet where
>     Steve> *finally* we have some measure of equality.  It also makes
>     Steve> for S-L-O-W responses to hard questions because you'd have
>     Steve> to post to one list, wait for a lack of response - then
>     Steve> post again to the 'elite' list.  Nah - not gonna work.
>
>     Steve> People already ask 'dumb' questions on this list, nobody
>     Steve> seems to mind when that happens - and most questions do
>     Steve> seem to get answers.  But the very fact that we have this
>     Steve> thread says that it's not working...
>
> Wrong. The reason we're having this thread is because we are
> continuing to struggle with getting the mix between newbie and veteran
> just right. This is a perpetual struggle and won't be solved ever. So
> we periodically talk about finetuning our approach. It's not a sign
> that anything is broken; on the contrary, it's a sign that things are
> working right, that we are still trying to redefine NTLUG to be
> helpful.
>
> <Kendall/>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: Kendall Clark <kclark at ntlug.org>
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 01:31:55 -0600 (CST)
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> Reply-To: kclark at ntlug.org
> Subject: [NTLUG:Discuss] forwarded message from randy
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
>
> --udfsnkQz7V
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Description: message body text
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Note: read carefully; this isn't from me, it's from someone
> else. Interested parties should respond directly to him.
>
>
> --udfsnkQz7V
> Content-Type: message/rfc822
> Content-Description: forwarded message
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Return-Path: <randy at dfwwebpages.com>
> Received: from localhost (IDENT:kclark at localhost [127.0.0.1])
> 	by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00788
> 	for <kclark at localhost>; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:32:33 -0600
> Received: from mail.airmail.net
> 	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.0.0)
> 	for kclark at localhost (single-drop); Wed, 23 Feb 2000
> 00:32:34 -0600 (CST)
> Received: from kick.dfwwebpages.com from [216.169.96.42] by
> mail.airmail.net
> 	(/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.432) with esmtp for
> <kclark at computek.net> sender: <randy at dfwwebpages.com>
> 	id <mP/12NU7Y-0007wdP at mail.airmail.net>; Tue, 22 Feb
> 2000 23:13:56 -0600 (CST)
> Received: from dfwwebpages.com
> (36-static55.adsl.directlink.net [63.64.251.55])
> 	by kick.dfwwebpages.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28900
> 	for <kclark at computek.net>; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:13:14 -0500
> Message-ID: <38B36C8F.DBA909BB at dfwwebpages.com>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U)
> X-Accept-Language: en
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> X-Airmail-Delivered: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:14:06 -0600 (CST)
> X-Airmail-Spooled:   Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:13:56 -0600 (CST)
> From: randy <randy at dfwwebpages.com>
> To: kclark at computek.net
> Subject: do you know anyone that can help me?
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:13:51 -0600
>
> Hello Mr. Clark,
>
> I found your name through the NTLUG web site, so I thought I'd contact
> you.
>
> I am looking for someone in the Dallas area to help me setup a
> Linux/Apache web server, secure server, FTP server, mail server, etc..
> Also, someone who can setup a password/membership data base for a web
> site. Someone who has experience and is looking for part-time work on
> the side helping me and teaching me.
>
> I am willing to pay for the help/work and I am willing to do all the
> traveling. All I need
> is someone willing help :)
>
>
> Randy Morrow
> rmorrow at directlink.net
>
> --udfsnkQz7V--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> Subject: Re: [NTLUG:Discuss] NTLUG veterans helping Linux newbies?
> To: discuss at ntlug.org
> From: Rick Cook <rcook at hex.net>
> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 01:39:38 -0600
> Reply-To: discuss at ntlug.org
>
> ---------- on Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:52:44 -0600 (CST) ,
> betaray at kludge.org said ->
> >>
> >> OK, I want to clarify something. The kind of things that I
> was talking
> >> about with NTLUG sponsored event were things like the lip,
> just for the
> >> uber nerds. I've recently become extremely intrested in
> getting Linux on
> >> just about any weird peice of hardware I can find, yet I
> don't own every
>
> I only personally work with Linux on three "weird pieces" of hardware:
> m68k,  ppc, and x86 (the weirdest by far being x86).
>
> I am participating in adding Macintosh m68k support to the Linux/m68k
> port that was originally done for Amigas and Ataris. I also
> occasionally
> attempt to boot Linux on a Performa 6300 (not supported by MkLinux
> or LinuxPPC) and have an external disk for my daughter's PowerBook
> 3400c to run LinuxPPC. At work (and at the LIP), I use x86 and dream
> about putting Linux on one of the UltraSPARCs.
>
> >> type of hardware out there. That and I'd like to meet more
> of the advanced
> >> users face to face. I don't have any ambitions beyond
> meeting a couple
> >> people, having a couple laughs, and compiling binutils in
> strange and
> >> exotic ways.
> >>
>
> So far, I have only compiled binutils (and gcc) as an x86 to
> m68k cross-compiler,
> but I am investigating adding gnat to that
> "cross-compilation" with ideas of
> creating a gnat enabled native m68k version of gcc.
>
>
> Rick Cook
> --
> rcook at ntlug.org
> rcook at hex.net
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at ntlug.org
> http://ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> End of Discuss Digest
>